Thursday, November 7, 2013

Nov 7 Update: Canada's Choice Rankings, Turkish Airlines expands service to Canada, 20% Discount on MileagePlus awards to Europe

We thought for a second that we should put something about Rob Ford in the news section since it is pretty much everywhere else in the news..... but the good news is he has nothing to do with travel rewards (or at least we hope not!)

News, Tips & Tricks

The big news today is of course the release of our Canada's Choice Rankings! Thank you all for voting! We were hoping to get 5,000 votes and Canada you surpassed that as we clocked in 17,185 votes! Check out the results here.

Turkish Airlines is expanding their service to Canada from Istanbul. Their existing Toronto flight is being increased to 6x per week service and they are adding a new flight to Montreal with 3x weekly service. Great news for Star Alliance and Aeroplan members. (Source Airlineroute.net)


Bonus Offers

airberlin topbonus
- Earn up to Triple topbonus Miles when you fly with airberlin and/or Etihad out of Germany and Switzerland to Abu Dhabi, Asia and Australia. More... Register and book by Dec 4 for travel until Dec 15, 13



Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan

- Earn up to 35% Bonus Mileage Plan Miles when you buy Mileage Plan miles online. More... Until Dec 20, 13

Hyatt Gold Passport
- Earn up to 2,000 Bonus Gold Passport Points for stays at the Hyatt Place San Jose Del Cabo. More... Until Jan 31, 14

TAM Fidelidade
- TAM Fidelidade 20th Anniversary Multiplus Award Ticket Discounts. Fly within Brazil for 5,000 points, Brazil to/from South America for 8,000 points, Brazil to/from North America for 25,000 points, Brazil to/from Europe for 30,000 points More... Various dates until May 31, 14

United MileagePlus
- 20% MileagePlus miles discount on MileagePlus Saver Award tickets to Europe. More... Book by Nov 19 for travel Jan 13 - Mar 11, 13

Canadians Pick their Top Travel Rewards Credit Cards for 2013 - Results of our Canada's Choice Vote!

By now It is common knowledge that Canadians love their travel reward programs.  But with more than 75 travel reward credit cards to choice from, knowing which ones score top marks among Canadians might make picking the right card a littler easier.

From September to October 2013, RewardsCanada.ca polled more than 17,000 users to find the answers as part of its third annual ‘Canada Choice’ travel reward credit card study.

The results were stunning. Of the five travel reward categories, RBC claimed top marks in three including:
Travel Points (with no annual fee): RBC Rewards Visa Gold Card
Hybrid: RBC Visa Infinite Avion
Airline: WestJet RBC World Elite MasterCard

Other Winners included
Travel Points (with annual fee): American Express Air Miles Platinum Credit Card
Hotel: The Starwood Preferred Guest Credit Card from American Express

To view all the results of ‘Canada’s Choice’ visit www.rewardscanada.ca/canadaschoice

"There have been significant changes to the Canadian Travel Reward Credit Card landscape and these survey results come at a time when people are looking for guidance on choosing the right card,” said Patrick Sojka of RewardsCanada.ca  “While our study captures the popular choices, it’s always best for Canadians to pick are card based on need.

RewardsCanada.ca is the definitive choice for Canadians looking for helping in choosing the right card. With online tools, news and updates and complete analysis, RewardsCanada provides Canadians with the groundwork for choosing a loyalty program and.

Rewards Canada offer the following five tips in selecting the right travel reward credit card:

1. Check under the hood -- make sure you understand how the earning and redemption mechanics of the card work including expiring policies for programs that issue miles or points
2. Set a travel goal -- knowing when and where you want travel will go along way in helping you narrow down the appropriate card
3. Hey Big Spender -- Do the math and have a realistic idea of how much spending you'll put through your card each year
4. PIck a card and stick to it -- once you identified your card it's critical you put all your spending through the card -- splitting you spend among several cards only delays your time to redemption
5. Fee or Free -- Most annual fee card pay for themselves with a one week car rental when you decline the rental car company's insurance and use the coverage from your credit card

This feature is a continuation of RewardsCanada.ca’s “Guide to Choosing a Travel Rewards Credit Card” which is aimed at helping the Canadian consumer choose the right travel rewards credit card for them.

What are your thoughts on this year's Canada's Choice?

Wednesday, November 6, 2013

Nov 6 Update: Shangri-La Golden Circle Game Week 2, Lufthansa to launch YYZ-MUC service, Save up to 25% on buying Starpoints

Middle of the week travel rewards news and bonuses for you. Are you bonusing?

News, Tips & Tricks

Don't forget to enter week 2 of Shangri-La's Golden Circle 3rd Annivesary contest to earn up to 1,200 free GC Award Points. One of our readers asked how long it takes for the points to post and according to the T&C's it will be 3-4 weeks after the end of the contest.


Lufthansa will be launching daily Toronto-Munich service on June 5, 2014. Good news for Aeroplan, Miles & More and other Star Alliance members as this provides another good to route earn and burn miles on. (Source Airline Route Updates)

There is a new discount of up to 25% when you buy SPG Starpoints. Not a bad offer that if utilized correctly can be worth the 2.625 cents it costs per point with the maximum discount or 2.1 cents per mile when converting to airlines that are 1:1 conversion with SPG and that includes the 5,000 mile bonus when you transfer 20,000 Starpoints. See below for details

Bonus Offers

Air Canada Aeroplan
- 500 Bonus Aeroplan Miles when you join Club Sobeys and provide your Aeroplan Number.More... Until Nov 30, 13

Air France KLM Flying Blue
- Double Flying Blue Miles s for stays at participating Hyatt Hotels in Europe, Middle East, Asia & Africa. More... Until Jan 31, 14

Delta SkyMiles
- Double SkyMiles & Double Medallion Qualifying Miles when you fly between Seattle and Anchorage, Portland, San Diego, San Francisco, Los Angeles or Las Vegas. More... Register and book by Dec 31, for travel until Oct 31, 14

IHG Rewards Club
- 2,000 Bonus IHG Rewards Club points per stay that is booked online via IHG. Maximum 8,000 points (4 stays). More... Until Dec 31, 13

Miles & More
- Double Miles & More Miles or Swiss International Air Lines scheduled flights between Geneva and Athens, Belgrade, Gothenburg, London, Madrid, Palma de Mallorca, Malaga, Marrakech, Oslo, Porto, Prague, Stockholm, Nice and Barcelona. More... Until Dec 19, 13
- Earn Double Miles & More Miles for stays at participating Hyatt Hotels in Europe, Middle East, Asia & Africa. More... Until Jan 31, 14
- Double Miles & More Miles for stays at Steigenberger Hotels and Resorts in Europe. More... Dec 1 - Jan 31, 14
- 1,000 Miles & More Miles for stays on Breakfast Flexible rates at Swissotel locations Worldwide. More... Until Dec 31, 13
- Double Miles & More Miles when booking the Double Miles for Early Birds rate for stays of 2 nights or more at participating World Hotels Worldwide. More... Dec 1 - Feb 28, 14
- Triple Miles & More Miles for stays at participating Wyndham Hotels Worldwide starting with your second stay. More... Until Jan 31, 14
- 20% Bonus Miles & More Miles when you buy or gift Miles or Miles. More... Until Dec 31, 13
- 5x Miles & More Miles when you shop Chic Outlet Shopping® Villages in Europe. More...Until Dec 15, 13
- 500 Miles & More Miles when you join Heathrow Rewards and use your Heathrow Rewards card and spend £30 or more in a single day. More...Until Dec 30, 13
- Double Miles & More Miles on your Lufthansa Miles & More Credit Cards transactions for all purchases that you make with a German Miles & More Credit Card. More... Dec 1 - 31, 13 Only available with a German banking account

Starwood Preferred Guest
- Earn 1,000 Bonus Starpoints and receive up to 35% off,  3rd Night free & a complimentary upgrade for stays at participating Starwood Villa Resorts in the U.S. and Mexico. More.. Booking Book by Nov 15 for stays until Feb 5, 14
- Save up to to 25% when you buy or gift Starpoints online. More... Until Dec 13, 13

Tuesday, November 5, 2013

Nov 5 Update: Hilton HHonors devalued once again, Star Alliance game to win Gold Status, lots of bonuses!

As the new month progresses along there is more news and lots more bonuses to pass your way!

News, Tips & Tricks

The devaluations of programs in the travel rewards industry continue! Yesterday Hilton HHonors announced the removal of their Points+Fixed Miles option. This option gave HHonors members HHonors points and a fixed number of airline miles for each Hilton stay. It was a very useful combination for low rate or one night Hilton stays as some airline programs like Virgin Atlantic's Flying Club awarded 1,000 miles on those stays! This change takes place on January 6th and after that date HHonors will offer two Earning Style Options: Points & Points (HHonors Base Points + HHonors Bonus Points) and Points & Miles (HHonors Base Points + Variable Airline/Rail Miles). If you have Points+Fixed Miles set on your account you will be automatically switched to the Points+Variable option (which is 10 HHonors Points and 1 Miles for every US$1 spent). Complete details on the change can be found here

Star Alliance is running a game where you can win Gold Status in the Star Alliance program of your choice. The 2 fastest times from each program will win the status, so as Gary Leff states your best bet maybe to enter not with Aeroplan or MileagePlus but one of the lesser known programs that may not have as many entries.You can enter the contest here. Best of luck to you!



Bonus Offers

airberlin topbonus
- 500 topbonus Miles when you become a HEINEMANN & ME member. More... Until Dec 31, 13

Etihad Guest
- Double Guest Miles when you stay at a participating Preferred Hotel Group hotel Worldwide for a minimum of two nights. More... Until Dec 31, 13

Hilton HHonors
- Earn Double miles with a participating airline when you complete a stay at a hotel or resort within the Hilton HHonors portfolio in Hawaii. More... Until Mar 31, 14
- Double Status Credits on all Hilton stays Worldwide. More... Unitl Dec 31, 13 Targeted Offer - May not work for everyone

La Quinta Returns

- Earn up to 30% Bonus Returns Points when you buy points online. More... Until Dec 8, 13

Starwood Preferred Guest
- Triple Starpoints when you stay in a Towers room at the Royal Orchid Sheraton Hotel & Towers Bangkok. More... Booking Until Dec 20, 13

TAP Portugal Victoria
- Double Victoria Miles for stays at participating Accor Hotels Worldwide. More... Book by Nov 30 for stays until Dec 31, 13

Thai Airways Royal Orchid Plus
- Double Royal Orchid Plus for stays at Centara Hotels & Resorts in Samui. More... Until Dec 31, 13
- Double Royal Orchid Plus for stays at Chatrium Hotels in Bangkok and Yangon. More... Until Dec 28, 13
- Double Royal Orchid Plus for stays of 2 nights or more at Dusit International Hotels in Thailiand, United Arab Emirates or the Philippines. More... Until Dec 20, 13
- Earn up to Triple Royal Orchid Plus for stays at Mandarin Oriental Hotels Worldwide. More...Until Dec 31, 13
- Triple Royal Orchid Miles when you stay at a qualifying rate for 3 or more nights at the Grand Millennium Sukhumvit Bangkok,. More...Until Dec 31, 13
- Double Royal Orchid Miles when you stay at a qualifying rate for 3 or more nights at any participating Millennium & Copthorne Hotel Worldwide. More... Until Dec 31, 13
- Double Royal Orchid Plus for stays on the Best Available Rate for any two consecutive night at any Shangri-La hotels, resorts, Kerry hotels or Traders hotels Worldwide. More... Until Dec 31, 13
- Triple Royal Orchid Plus when you stay in a Towers room at the Royal Orchid Sheraton Hotel & Towers Bangkok. More...Until Dec 20, 13
- Triple Royal Orchid Plus per stay at 130 participating World hotels in over 60 destinations worldwide. More... Until Dec 31, 13
- Double Royal Orchid Plus and a 50% discount when you rent any car from any Budget location in Thailand for 3 or more days. More... Until Dec 31, 13
- Earn up to Triple Royal Orchid Plus and a 20% discount when you rent from Hertz in Thailand for 3 or more days. More... Until Dec 31, 13

Today Only: 5,000 Bonus Miles for Rocketmiles bookings

https://www.rocketmiles.com/anniversary/

As we tweeted last night from our @FFBonuses account Rocketmiles is celebrating their first anniversary today with a one day promotion. That promotion is 5,000 Bonus Miles in the program of your choice that is partnered with Rocketmiles for stays that are booked by 9pm CT tonight and completed by Dec 31, 13. You must book your stay via the special promotion page at https://www.rocketmiles.com/anniversary/ but if you are not a member of Rocketmiles yet you can join via our referral link to earn 1,000 more miles on your first booking and we'll get a referral credit of the same amount. So if today will be your first time using Rocketmiles you should be able to get 6,000 bonus miles over and above what they award for the stay itself.

Earn One Million Bonus Aeroplan Miles if you spend $100,000 at Birks

Wow! In our 12+ years of running Rewards Canada I don't think we've ever come across a bonus this big from Aeroplan. One Million bonus Aeroplan Miles, that's right a one with six zeros after it. How do you get the million bonus miles? Oh it's simple! Its like spending pocket change for most us! No really, if you have $100,000 lying around to buy some jewelry from Birks then 1 Million miles is yours. Seriously? If you have $100,000 to spend on jewelry chances are you fly around in a private jet and On Million Aeroplan Miles isn't that big of deal or is it? If you value Aeroplan Miles at 1 cent a piece then you are a getting a 10% return on your $100,000 jewelry investment so perhaps those of you who are really rich and were planning a big jewelry purchase for Christmas this offer could actually bring you a healthy return. All you have to do is make that purchase of $100,000 by next Monday November 11th.  Find all the details here.


Monday, November 4, 2013

Huge devaluation of the United MileagePlus program - what does it mean for Canadian MileagePlus members?


So we took Friday off from the world of travel rewards and of course as Murphy's Law would have it that some really big news happened. Also as Murphy's Law would have it, the news isn't good. United Airlines' MileagePlus program has announced changes to their flight award charts, primarily for flights on their partners. This really hits home to a lot of Canadian frequent flyers as this has been the program of choice that many disgruntled Aeroplan members have moved to. Why did they move to United MileagePlus? Well before this announcement the program was actually one of the best for redemptions (one way awards were always half the cost of round trip, which Aeroplan is bringing in 2014), they didn't pass along fuel surcharges so the taxes and fees on award tickets were way less than Aeroplan and the elite status program of MileagePlus, called Premier is also very attractive. Also since United and Air Canada are Star Alliance partners many Canadian's chose MileagePlus after leaving Aeroplan since you could earn and redeem MileagePlus miles for Air Canada flights, both domestic and international. Of course, now many of those award ticket redemptions on Air Canada will cost you more MileagePlus miles.

So what are the details of the changes? First off, the new award ticket mileage requirements go into effect on February 1st, 2014 which gives you until January 31 to book at the old rates. As of February 1st United MileagePlus will essentially have two award charts, one for flying on United (and United Express etc) and one for their partners. The increases for flights on United are not out of the world and honestly could have been expected as certain award ticket levels now match those of United's main competitors. The biggest changes in the partner awards come in International Business Class and First Class redemptions. United is definitely looking at lowering the amount people redeeming their easily obtained miles for these expensive type of flights and recouping their costs for those who do (so United says). One must also see that United has reduced the miles required for several redemptions but that hardly makes up for the high percentage increaese for others (over 80% in some cases!).

Here are some key examples of changes that will affect Canadian MileagePlus members the most:
If you want to do your own comparison here are links to the MileagePlus award charts:
2013 Award Chart (valid until Jan 31)
2014 Award Chart (effective Feb 1)
Redemptions on United
Canada - Hawaii
Economy Class
Saver Award
Old 20,000 Miles one way
New 22,500 Miles one way

Canada - Europe
Economy Class
Standard Award
Old 55,000 Miles one way
New 65,000 Miles one way

Business Class
Saver Award
Old 50,000 Miles one way
New 57,500 Miles one way
Standard Award
Old 125,000 Miles one way
New 150,000 Miles one way

First Class
Saver Award
Old 67,500 Miles one way
New 80,000 Miles one way
Standard Award
Old 157,700 Miles one way
New 170,000 Miles one way

There are also slight increases in flight awards to Asia, Africa, the Middle East and Australia/New Zealand.

Redemptions on Partner Airlines (ie Air Canada, Lufthansa, Thai Airways etc)
Canada - Southern South America
Business Class
Old 50,000 Miles one way
New 55,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 67,500 Miles one way
New 70,000 Miles one way
Canada - Europe
Business Class
Old 50,000 Miles one way
New 70,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 67,500 Miles one way
New 110,000 Miles one way
Canada - Africa
Business Class
Old 60,000 Miles one way
New 80,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 75,000 Miles one way
New 130,000 Miles one way
Canada - Middle East
Economy Class
Old 40,000 Miles one way
New 42,500 Miles one way

Business Class
Old 60,000 Miles one way
New 80,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 75,000 Miles one way
New 140,000 Miles one way
Canada - Central Asia (incl India)
Economy Class
Old 40,000 Miles one way
New 42,500 Miles one way

Business Class
Old 60,000 Miles one way
New 80,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 80,000 Miles one way
New 140,000 Miles one way
Canada - South Asia
Economy Class
Old 32,500 Miles one way
New 40,000 Miles one way

Business Class
Old 60,000 Miles one way
New 80,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 70,000 Miles one way
New 130,000 Miles one way

Canada - North Asia
Economy Class
Old 32,500 Miles one way
New 35,000 Miles one way

Business Class
Old 60,000 Miles one way
New 80,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 70,000 Miles one way
New 120,000 Miles one way

Canada - Japan
Economy Class
Old 32,500 Miles one way
New 35,000 Miles one way

Business Class
Old 60,000 Miles one way
New 75,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 67,500 Miles one way
New 110,000 Miles one way

Canada - Oceania
Business Class
Old 60,000 Miles one way
New 75,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 75,000 Miles one way
New 110,000 Miles one way

Canada - Australia/New Zealand
Business Class
Old 67,500 Miles one way
New 80,000 Miles one way

First Class
Old 80,000 Miles one way
New 130,000 Miles one way

All we can say is ouch!! Those long haul award flights on UA's Star Alliance partners in business class and first class have sure taken a huge hit. One topic that I have not seen discussed on other frequent flyer blogs is the idea of fuel surcharges? Is it possible that United MileagePlus wants to keep its reputation of not charging fuel surcharges on partner flights simply by embedding that surcharge in this increase in miles? The reply from MileagePlus doesn't state this directly but does say that the increased cost of these flights from their partners is the main reason that the award amounts are increasing so theoretically it could mean that UA is now charging a fuel surcharge that is simply buried in the award amount. We doubt we'll ever know the true answer however!

What happens if you book a mixed airline award (one leg United, next leg Air Canada or other partner). Well it appears it will book at the higher of the two award amounts (United vs. Star Alliance award chart) if the flights are in the same class.  For example if you want to fly to Paris from Toronto via the U.S. in Business Class and leg 1 is on Air Canada (Toronto-Chicago etc) and then leg 2 is on United (Chicago etc to Paris) and you choose the fly that first leg on Air Canada in Business Class (well AC Executive) then you will pay the Star Alliance amount of 70,000 miles one way however if you book the Air Canada leg into Economy class and then fly the Transatlantic leg on UA in Business Class you'll pay the award rate of the United chart of 57,500 miles. So some creative thinking may have to go into planning mixed airline award booking with MileagePlus.

The devaluations don't stop with award tickets as there are some minor changes to Mileage Upgrades for Intra-Asia and Northern South America flights. These shouldn't affect many of Canada's MileagePlus members but should be worth noting.

Looking quickly at the new 2014 Aeroplan chart versus the 2014 MileagePlus chart, Aeroplan looks to be the better deal for flights in Business Class or First Class on Star Alliance partners other than United as you will need less miles. For example, business class on Air Canada to Europe with Aeroplan is 90 to 105,000 Miles + Fuel Surcharge and United will be 140,000 Miles with no fuel surcharge. Depending on how you earn miles you may be better off with Aeroplan with the fuel surcharge. First class to Asia? 210,000-215,000 miles with Aeroplan, 240,000-260,000 with MileagePlus. Of course the best way around this is to redeem MileagePlus miles for flights on United only but for some destinations and flights out of Canada that can be tough. We will have a follow up post with a deeper comparison of Aeroplan 2014 versus United Partner Chart 2014 to look at mileage requirement amounts and fuel surcharges.

The next question to be asked is which airlines will follow suit? Delta has already gone through a major change, American and US Airways are most likely waiting until their merger is approved or not and hopefully, crossing our fingers here, Aeroplan doesn't follow suit given that they have already announced an increase for next year in certain award ticket categories! Also holding our breath that Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan doesn't jump on this bandwagon as now with UA changes, the small Pacific Northwest program got even stronger.

Finally, if you have lots of MileagePlus miles that you have been holding onto for that premium class award ticket now is to the time redeem or to at least start planning on redeeming them before January 31st, 2014!

What are your thoughts on the changes? Are you going to stick with MileagePlus or will you perhaps give Aeroplan or another Star Alliance program a look? We'd love to hear from you, comment below!

Nov 4 Update: New Capital One page on Rewards Canada, US Airways targeted Buy Miles bonus, IHG PointBreaks

Monday is quiet on the update front, primarily due to us working on items behind the scenes!

News, Tips & Tricks

The biggest news to come out since our last update on Thursday is the huge devaluation to the United MileagePlus program that will take effect on February 1st, 2014. Rewards Canada will have a separate post on this coming later today so stay tuned!


We have launched a separate page on RewardsCanada.ca for Capital One. Much like our separate Amex page, this page highlights credit card offerings only from Capital One and will be populated shortly with more of their cards. If this page proves popular we will expand this service to other major card issuers in Canada. See the new Capital One page here.


Travel Deals
Hyatt
is offering 2 Free Nights and up to a $150 Resort Credit for stays at the Andaz Maui at Wailea. Stay 4 nights and Get 2 nights free + $75 resort credit Stay 5 nights and get 2 nights free + $150 resort credit. Full details and online booking Until Jan 8, 14




Bonus Offers

EVA Air Infinity MileageLands
- Double Infinity MileageLands miles for each qualifying stay at Club Room or higher room category at participating Langham Hotels Worldwide. More... Until Jan 31, 14

IHG Rewards Club
- IHG Rewards Club Point Breaks Redeem only 5,000 points for stays at select hotels Worldwide. Offer and participating hotels are subject to change at any time, valid for stays thru Jan 31, 14. More...

United MileagePlus
- 3,000 Bonus MileagePlus Miles when you join RocketMiles and then book and complete your first stay made via RocketMiles. More... Book by Nov 30 for stays until Apr 1, 14

US Airways Dividend Miles
- Earn up to 100% Bonus Dividend Miles when you buy Dividend Miles. Bonus ranges from 50 to 100% and is targeted by member. More... Until Nov 30, 13 Targeted Offer - May not work for everyone

Friday, November 1, 2013

IHG PointBreaks now open for booking

One of the best redemptions in the hotel loyalty program world is IHG Rewards Club PointBreaks and the latest set of offers are now available for booking for stays November 1 to January 31st.  Rather then rehashing the whole list again you can see our preview post from a few days ago or go straight to the PointBreaks page.

Why are IHG Rewards Club Point Breaks such a great deal? Because they offer reward nights at participating IHG hotels Worldwide for only 5,000 Rewards Club points. For those of you not to familiar with Priority Club, normal redemption rates for Rewards Club reward nights run from as low as 10,000 points for some Holiday Inn and Holiday Inn Express locations to 50,000 points for ultra-luxurious InterContinental locations and even these locations can participate in Point Breaks. So as you can see you can receive a discount of 50 to 88% off the regular redemption rates.  Please note that like most loyalty promotions these offers are capacity controlled so I advise to book sooner than later to ensure you get the Point Breaks rate.

Quite possibly the best location participating this time is the InterContinental Resort Tahiti! My bets are on that it will only last a few days before it sells out of its 5,000 point nights!


50% Transfer Bonus for RBC Rewards (Avion only) to British Airways Executive Club is now live

As I mentioned back on Oct 1st, the  50% Transfer Bonus for RBC Rewards (Avion only) to British Airways Executive Club is now live. The promotion will run from November 1st to December 31st and is one of the best reasons on why to own an RBC Avion credit card.

As always BA Avios are a great option for flights to Asia (via Cathay Pacific), short to medium haul within North America (Alaska Airlines, American Airlines) and even though huge surcharges are added to their UK/Europe redemptions they can still be a good value because of this bonus transfer based on your spend with the credit card (see my post about Earn & Burn for an explanation)

Full details on the promotion can be found here